As a moral atheist you have a number of rights and responsibilities. These include (but are not limited to): - Have no gods.
- Don't worship stuff.
- Be polite.
- Take a day off once in a while.
- Be nice to folks.
- Don't kill people.
- Don't cheat on your significant other.
- Don't steal stuff.
- Don't lie about stuff.
- Don't be greedy.
Remember, theists may condemn you for living by this code because you are doing it of your own free will instead of because you're afraid that if you don't a supreme being will set you on fire.
20 comments:
Nice. Good Stuff!
What a bunch of nonesense. Everybody makes up rules for other people to obey. This is almost as bad as following a certain Rebbe and asking him how to live. As an atheist I consider myself a FREE THINKER thats means I do what I decide to do for myself. Sometimes I do make a Brocha because I want to. Sometimes I even bentsch because I want to. Sometimes I do something on shabbos that my wife would be against, because I want to. I dont want anybody giving me rules or instructions to live by. I am the master of my own fate. I decide what I want to do and what I dont without being beholden to some moron who thinks that he knows what makes an atheist an atheist.......Avi
zerabbi@aol.com
Avi,
Tell us how you really feel. ;)
LUBABY,
why???????
why should one abide by these rules?
Actually being an atheist sucks. I was much happier when I had something to believe in. All that Doggie doo about " Gan Eden " rejoining those that you loved and all the other good things that come with it, practically something to look forward to.
But reality is reality. The only thing to look forward to is eventually dying. Thats not something to look forward to. But we all gotta grow up sometimes. You cant believe in fairy tales all your life. And as we get older we have less tomorrows to forward to then the yesterdays. I already put in my order for the next lifetime if I have to come back again. Hope I wont make the same dumb mistakes I made this time.....Avi
zerabbi@aol.com
>why should one abide by these rules?
That's easy! Cuz the non-existent God said so on his non-existent website.
But seriously, why ask that question?
OK, for real... why should you be nice to your spouse? Because it's prudent. It's good advice, if you want to live a happy life with a spouse.
So why shouldn't you lie cheat and steal? Cuz it's prudent. It's good advice if you want to develop good relationships with your fellow humans. You probably do if you are a normal human being so there you go.
What a load!
Without God, life is ultimately meaningless. I mean, with nothing telling you what is right or wrong, it's all a matter of opinion. Would you all please refer to a somewhat classic novel known as "Crime and Punishment" where a free thinker concluded that since he was above the law he could get away with murder...and he actually does! After some time he comes to the realization that if everyone came to the same conclusion there would be a lovely world of chaos.
>So why shouldn't you lie cheat and steal? Cuz it's prudent. It's good advice if you want to develop good relationships with your fellow humans. You probably do if you are a normal human being so there you go.
What if both husband and wife decide to cheat on each other with the other knowing?
aaaaaaah
so spoketh the holy hyrax
asher,
> I mean, with nothing telling you what is right or wrong, it's all a matter of opinion.
Unless of course we have some basic morality pre-programed into our instincts. "Do not kill members of your family or tribe" seems to be a primal law.
HH,
> What if both husband and wife decide to cheat on each other with the other knowing?
Then they're in an open relationship. I don't think that would be considered cheating.
What if both husband and wife decide to cheat on each other with the other knowing?
===================================
I wouldn't suggest it. Sooner or later someone becomes jealous of the other spouse having too much fun. Besides if you believe in the torah , then God does not want you to do that........Avi
zerabbi@aol.com
Sooner or later someone becomes jealous of the other spouse having too much fun.
Now, is this spoken from experience Avi? 'cuz that's a blog post i wanna read
Without God, life is ultimately meaningless
YAWN
>What if both husband and wife decide to cheat on each other with the other knowing?
Guzunte hait. Hell if I care. They ain't hurting nobody.
>Without God, life is ultimately meaningless.
AHH! Really? I mean they never told me that when I signed up to become a militant atheist. They told me my meaning in life would come from shoving reason into people's minds. Are you telling me they lied?
"OK, for real... why should you be nice to your spouse? Because it's prudent. It's good advice, if you want to live a happy life with a spouse.
So why shouldn't you lie cheat and steal? Cuz it's prudent. It's good advice if you want to develop good relationships with your fellow humans. You probably do if you are a normal human being so there you go."
Suppose you don't do that stuff. The point is not a reason to do things. The point is the obligation to. If I consider it ok in theory to cheat but don't do it in practice that is no more a sense of onligation than what someone keeping a religious practice without a sense of obligation does. From a purely secular viewpoint there are no rules. Avi's idea from his standpoint makes perfect sense.
>Guzunte hait. Hell if I care. They ain't hurting nobody.
I don't know. I can't imagine relationships like this helping out humanity.
Just because they say they don't mind doesn't mean anything. Besides I thought the argument of FedUp is not whether something hurts but that self deprivation which is what morality involves helps out in Evolution. If that's the case we can say that fidelity obviously has a survival benefit or else it would not have survived. Ah but infedility also has survived so it too must have survival quality.
What if I enjoy killing people? What's wrong with it? It's the only solution to global warming too.
Sounds like some are arguing that a covenant with G-d is somehow more binding than a covenant between people? If you believe in a G-d then the foundations of what you call obligation stem from the same foundation that drives an atheist to feel obligated to do good and that is both are based on contracts, one between man and G-d and the other between man and man. Atheist or Theist both are behaving in a way that correspond to the basic rules in successful relationships, the difference being that a Theist takes those relationship rules and use them in the service of G-d. Do not cheat on your wife because, barring open relationships, you have agreed not to partake in that kind of behavior. You do not steal from your friend because you are violating an unspoken covenant that friends don’t do that. You do not murder because as part of this society you agreed to not behave in such a manner, either for moral not theistic reason, self preservation or the plethora of other possible causes. It’s not simply prudent and good advice (although it is), it’s about following through with a contract you have entered, either verbally or implicitly, between you and your fellow human being. It should be no surprise to hear an atheist adhere to many of the same principles in the Torah, because the commandments (mitzvoth) mirror human relationship, not vice versa. They are a ritualistic way of people utilizing the same skills (promise, sacrifice, effort, love, etc) used in forging strong interpersonal relationships but now focused on building a relationship with G-d.
Torah, to an extent, mirrors life not the other way around. Now if you want to argue why people would be driven to agree to such a contract outside the context of G-d, then now we are talking some fun philosophy.
P.S.- You know what could help global warming? More Orthodox families recycling and ceasing their weekly use of disposable plates and cups on Shabbat. Offering tap water instead of pop at shul or homes would help out too.
"Torah, to an extent, mirrors life not the other way around. Now if you want to argue why people would be driven to agree to such a contract outside the context of G-d, then now we are talking some fun philosophy."
The problem is it is not enough to talk of what drives people to do things. The question is does it have to be done. Simply doing the smartest thing is not what we do all the time. So we make less money or whatever. Further morality doesn't all ways involve a good payoff. If we are all going to get hurt by the government or any boss we would have, then it hardly pays off to do the right thing assuming that there is such a thing as knowing what is the right thing to do in every case independent of society's influence which is a dubious proposition to say the least.
"P.S.- You know what could help global warming? More Orthodox families recycling and ceasing their weekly use of disposable plates and cups on Shabbat. Offering tap water instead of pop at shul or homes would help out too."
They are already helping conserve energy once a week. Further on Shabbat at home they don't typically use disposable plates and cups on Shabbat. At public gathering it is typical for jews and NonJews. As for pop everyone drinks that whether Jewish ot not and I've seen bought water and tap water given just as much if not more.
"Remember, theists may condemn you for living by this code because you are doing it of your own free will instead of because you're afraid that if you don't a supreme being will set you on fire."
In Judaism that is specifically not why we are to do what we do. Whether we will be punished or not or rewarded or not we are still supposed to do what the Supreme Being says.
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