Secondly, The Candy Man has been posting high quality stuff and I feel like my midnight ramblings pale in comparison. If you were ever looking for proof LNM and TCM are two different people you now have your evidence.
Now back to our story...
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We talked about how we have been fighting a lot lately. My wife went into the details of her pregnancy and our baby's birth and how difficult it was for her both physically, and mentally. I talked about the added stress of these issues and other problems. We went on like this for thirty or forty minutes.
When we exhausted all of these peripheral issues (symptomatic issues?) the doc seemed to sit back and take it all in. Then the Mrs. added "Another thing that has been an issue is that LubabNoMore told me he doesn't believe in God or Judaism."
"Ah-ha" said the doctor. "I can tell that this is a great source of stress for you Mrs. Lubab."
"It is."
"What in particular do you worry about?"
"I worry he won't be frum in the house. I worry about what will happen when we have to pay for baby-Lubab to go to Jewish day school. I worry about what kind of Jewish home we will have."
"LubabNoMore, have you talked with the Mrs. about this?"
"We have. I've said that this lifestyle, frum Judaism, is what I signed up for when we got married and I don't have any intention of changing the deal. I'm not looking to rock the boat or change our lifestyle. I just don't believe in it."
We talked as a group a little longer and then our time was just about up. As the doc was wrapping the session up he said to my wife "I understand Lubab's lack of faith is distressing, but marriages have survived much worse than this."
My heart almost jumped out of my chest. "marriages have survived much worse than this" In my mind I was cheering! dancing! Outwardly I didn't move a muscle. The frum guy sitting in front of us had just given my wife permission to be OK with my kefira. At least on some level.
Shortly after that we said "Thank you" and got up and left. On the way back to the car I already noticed a small change in the Mrs. It felt like the wall that had been built up between us over the months had cracked down the middle.
As I put the car in gear my wife turned to me and smiled.
27 comments:
Yea!
YES! I knew deep down inside the two of you like each other (sometimes that's even stronger than love). Sounds like a good start.
this post brought a smile to my face
:)
brought a smile to my face as well!
Man, I am so glad, for I know what your going through. At least sometime we encounter a rational other half.
Do a little dance... Make a little love... Get down tonight.
Oh yeah! L'chaims at your house!
Great news!
Awesome. It's also amazing what a little external "Confirmation" can do. Keep her away from the Rabbi's who may express a very different perspective. And Good Luck!
BHB
Good post! I completely agree with this shrink. I think it fits with the attitude towards religion we've been discussing. You and your wife are such a good match. Why should a little thing like religious differences get in the way?
Now... why aren't OJ kids taught to think this way in day school? It would solve so many problems.
Mazal Tov
Truly great news. Two things though.
1) This seems only the beginning. And of course the shrink saying people have gone through tougher things than religion, is easier said than done. Tachles, when it comes down to it, the kid issue is going to be the toughest, AND, that probably is the only issue. I mean, after all, if you guys did not have kids, both of you can live quietly together. Educating kids is extremely complex and saying you are in it for the ride means little till you actually get on that ride. And believe me, I am going through it right now and it is the only thing that tries at my marriage.
2) There is no second.
HH
> Educating kids is extremely complex and saying you are in it for the ride means little till you actually get on that ride.
I think what you're saying here is key. The truth is I don't know how I will feel about paying through the nose for day school. All I know for certain right now is that I don't want to make a statement out of it. For example, I will not insist that our kid goes to public school. I defiantly want to send the kid/s to as modern/left a school as my wife is willing to go for. She is pretty modern in her thinking so this shouldn't be too big an issue. But like you said, it doesn't mean a whole lot until you get there.
In your marriage who wants the kids to go to a more religious school? You or the wife? Any advice for a future tuition payer?
>Why should a little thing like religious differences get in the way?
Imagine your wife told you that she does not want your kids to do XYZ which you think are valuable and that they had to ABC which you thought were stupid, sexist and homophobic. You wouldn't call religious differences a "little thing" after that.
yes, I will email you.
My wife always smiles at me. Even when she is trying to bash my skull in with a heavy pot. She says that she is doing it because she loves me. Ah love does some strange things. Actually she never tried to bash my skull in, but sometimes I think that she would like to. I am glad that I raised my kids and got them married off before I started losing my belief. It makes life so much easier......Avi
Well, I guess it's a good start. One thing that jumped out at me is that our first counseling session was similar. We left happy, having expended all the poison that was on our minds.
However, this stuff (the differences) builds and builds and builds. The real problems (for us) started once the kids started going to school. So yes, education, will be a huge problem. You might balk at what the jewish schools teach the kids.
Anyway, we are separated now.
great news!
LNM said
"In your marriage who wants the kids to go to a more religious school? You or the wife? Any advice for a future tuition payer?"
Move to Israel. Tuition for most "jewish" schools is minimal or almost free.
You can continue your blog from Israel, as I do!!
Leora,
Thanks for the support!
BHB,
> Keep her away from the Rabbi's who may express a very different perspective.
Excellent point.
Avi,
> I raised my kids and got them married off before I started losing my belief. It makes life so much easier.
I don't doubt it for a second.
frizzo,
> yes, education, will be a huge problem. You might balk at what the jewish schools teach the kids.
It sounds like a lot of people feel this way. I'm starting to worry about what might happen when we're in that "parsha".
The best thing is ... to keep talking. About the real issues, the hard ones. You mention that 30-40 minutes went by before Mrs. LNM brought up the (lack of) belief issue. It must be very difficult for her, but having opened the subject should make it easier.
And, of course, wishes for good luck.
Well it's a good beginning and it will stay good so long as you give her reason for optimism just as you did. Keep up the therapy and go on the road it leads to. It's better now then when you were in denial and ready to bash anybody's head in for letting you know they think your marriage was in trouble. Bring all issues to the table and deal with it for the salvation of your marriage and it will work. The religious issue is big one but I'm sure it is somehow related to your other issues as a symptom. Best of luck.
I give you and your wife lots of credit for seeking therapy. The fact that you both want to try and make your marriage work is the key. I'm sure you will remember that smile she gae you forever...
Sometimes it takes an outsider to point out the obvious. Hope you and MrsL continue to make positive progress.
Looks like the BroadBand Patrol shut down 2 of our friends, The Chief and Hassidim 4Dummies
i just had to throw my two cents in and say that anything's possible if you love each other
i grew up in a home where my parents were very honest about their religious beliefs - with each other and with their children
my dad is the black hat, long beard member of the home while my mom...well not so much. she doesn't cover her hair, wears pants and eats at non kosher restaurants. so much for at least having the exterior image...
it wasn't always easy and there's a lot of compromise (like the home being kosher - only 2 sets of dishes...not like some of those homes that have three: milchig, fleishig and take out)
but they always had an open dialouge - although sometimes it was a little too open... and loud :-)
but like i said...they've been married for over 30 years...they love each other and can laugh at (with) each other and despite some differences that seem insurmountable they've stayed that way...
i wish you and the mrs. lots of luck....
Yay!!!!
Just discovered this blog, good stuff. I wonder how many young couples in the Orthodox world are going through exactly this, where one spouse still believes and the other has grown into the apikores that I have become.
shari - a lurker: I'm happy you wrote that, it gives me hope that my 8 year old marriage can weather such a storm. In my home the roles are reversed but it's the same otherwise.
Ultimately, I hope that the love, trust, and family that we have created together will trump beliefs or lack thereof and we can all grow together as good spouses. All the rest should be peripheral.
read the chronicles of crisis in the jewish press this week - it makes one think of you.
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