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I really enjoyed The Dark Knight. The Joker especially.
Listening to this speech was fascinating to me. I pretty much agree with The Joker's take on life on an intellectual/philosophical level (i.e. it's all meaningless in the grand scheme). I just don't feel his need to inflict that knowledge on the rest of humanity.
The film implies that the Joker is not simply a skeptic who's read a lot of Nietzsche. There is the implication that the Joker learned this truth the hard way. Maybe his father cut him when he was a child (maybe not), maybe his wife was sliced up by mobsters (maybe not). But whatever the case the Joker gives the impression that he came to his nihilism via of the school of hard knocks. Now that he knows the joke he seems bent on teaching the punch line to the world one corpse at a time.
I on the other hand am happy to laugh along with those in on the joke and enjoy the short time I have in the world.
What a great night out.
17 comments:
Glad you and the Mrs. had a nice evening out. So what did she think of the film?
Hoping I might see the movie with my middle son, who just came back from camp and REALLY wants to see it. Eldest son said it was very good.
What took you so long?
Most of the film was about morality. Prisoner Dilemmas, psychopathology, identity ethics, revenge, virtue... There's a lot to process...
I really enjoyed it and can't wait to watch it again.
The true horror and tragedy of the Joker is that he is entirely correct from the point of view that he offers. His entire routine is self-consistent end to end. It only looks crazy to others because it is so dramatically at odds to theirs, but chills you because his feeds off the inconsistencies of your own.
It was an impressive character reimagining and very good performance.
Love Batman, and the movie was a great take on Joker. That speech was great. The Joker's like, "Look at me? Do I look like I plan ahead? I'm just a mad dog someone let off the leash!" Good stuff.
If you like that one, check out The Dark Knight Returns graphic novel...
I disagree with your interpretation that the Joker learned "these truths" the hard way.
If the Joker had indeed lived the life of hard knocks, then the police would have had his dna/fingerprints/dental records with which to identify him.
I get the impression that the Joker because the Joker as an older person, and there was absolutely nothing wrong with his life of childhood. Thats the whole point of his speeches, he is playing off the sympathies of people who feel bad for people with bad upbringings.
Part of the "rules" of society is that people are only bad, because they had a rough life. He breaks even that rule.
Interesting that you viewed the Joker in a positive way. Claiming the character as a skeptic can't be too proud -- after all, he was a murderer, and the villian.
Last year's Best Picture, No Country for Old Men, had a similar concept -- I'll skip plot details in case you haven't seen it. That movie became a point of contention for atheists who furiously claimed that the antagonist in the film was not an atheist... despite kinda overwhelming evidence to the contrary. But at least No Country left it somewhat ambiguous. The Dark Knight makes its point quite clearly: according the Joker, atheism leads to the downfall of society.
However, The Dark Knight's overall theme isn't exactly skeptic. The message seems to be that while the individual (Harvey Dent) can be corrupted, people as a whole -- the congregation -- will not succumb to "random chaos." (It's worth noting that the large prisoner on the ferry, the one who made the film's most blatantly moral choice, was played by Tiny Lister, a born-again Christian who now uses his celebrity to preach the gospel.)
Also, the Joker's message of random chance can be viewed in Christian terms. His signature playing card portrays him not as a jester, but rather as The Devil. No wonder his adversary is Batman, a winged agent of good, sent to protect the people of Gotham... whether they deserve it or not.
Sounds like a pretty religious movie to me!
If Joker is giving that impression of nihilism, then the movie is a stark portrayal of where that can take a person and how deadly it can be for a soceity
you're such a frummie, finding inspiration even in a fictional movie :)
Leora,
The Wife liked the movie. She really liked how Maggie Gyllenhaal carried her character.
Take the kid. He'll have a good time. I don't know how old he is but I want to warn you that the movie should be rated R. It is rated PG-13 and doesn't show any actual blood but somehow it is still pretty gruesome. (Did I mention that I really loved this film?)
love the new look, LNM.
Jessica,
Thanks! Still working out the kinks/importing the blogroll.
FrUs,
> Most of the film was about morality. Prisoner Dilemmas, psychopathology, identity ethics, revenge, virtue... There's a lot to process...
I thought you were going to do a post on The Dark Knight. Is that still in the works?
Daganev,
> Part of the "rules" of society is that people are only bad, because they had a rough life. He breaks even that rule.
Interesting take. I think that's a valid interpretation but somehow that makes the Joker less interesting to me. :(
Anon,
> Interesting that you viewed the Joker in a positive way. Claiming the character as a skeptic can't be too proud -- after all, he was a murderer, and the villian.
The term skeptic is just an adjective. Like the word religious it can be used positively and pejoratively.
LNM-
"but somehow that makes the Joker less interesting to me. :("
Does it really? I find it to be just the opposite. Hard-knock life made me an evil villain stories are a dime a dozen. For an individual to come to that point out of the twisted recesses of his own mind, without any external societal excuse, is extremely compelling to me bc it means that even someone like myself could be brought to that dark edge above the precipice - no one is immune, and I think that is very possibly an important piece of the Joker's whole ethos.
Miri,
What makes that boring (to me) is that he then lacks a compelling motive. He just figured out that life is meaningless so he kills people? Yawn. That's a reason to start a book (or worse, a blog).
I don't think he kills because he is disturbed as a result of bad things that happened to him. I think he feels betrayed by the lack of control he once thought he had and now wants to share that feeling with everyone else by putting then in similar situations. Its a subtle differance but still a differance.
LNM-
Interesting. Of course, when you talk about psychological disturbances, there's very little difference - or at least a very blurred line - between what you're saying and what I'm saying. I do find your analysis of his motive intresting, but I still have to say that if it was a typical abused child/traumatic life events story, I'm a little less impressed than if it was otherwise.
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