(Guest post by The CandyMan) Think today is the 33rd day of the Omer? You must be a "Rabbanite," who counts the Omer from the second day of Passover, which this year fell out on a Monday. But if you're a Karaite, you take the Bible as literally as possible -- and that means counting the Omer from "the morrow of the Sabbath," i.e. Sunday. So Lag B'Omer (a Rabbinic holiday by any definition) isn't for another 6 days.*Now, back in the old days, this kind of thing might seem like a huge difference. But nowadays, most Jews are Reform, don't even believe in Moses, and have never heard of Shavuot (although the exceptions can be freaking brilliant). In such times, wouldn't it be wise to broaden our horizons a little and welcome the Karaites into the greater Jewish community... even if they celebrate Shavuot a little later in the week?
Last Saturday, at a local "Shalosh Seudot" gathering, someone mentioned that there's a thriving Karaite community in San Francisco. This community recently celebrated a major milestone: a Karaite conversion ceremony, the first since 1465. Let me be the first to say, Mazal Tov! Browsing online, I found this great interview with the Karaite rabbi, Joe Pessah. To me, the most interesting stuff is what he says about interacting, and intermarrying, with Rabbanites. This could be the start of something big, the mending of a rift that has festered for far too long.
I am reminded of a good Mishna (my Karaite and atheist sisters, please humor me here):
Beth Shammai permit the [rival wives] to the surviving brothers, and Beth Hillel prohibit them... Though these forbade what the others permitted, and these regarded as ineligible what the others declared eligible, Beth Shammai nevertheless did not refrain from marrying women from Beth Hillel, nor did Beth Hillel refrain from marrying women from Beth Shammai. [Similarly...] neither of them abstained from using the utensils of the others for the preparation of food that was ritually clean. (Y'vamot 1:4)Amen.
*The intricacies of the debate are far too boring to go into here. All interested parties should start with Leviticus 23:9-21 and Joshua 5:11. The interested Rabbanite should proceed to the Babylonian Talmud (Menahot 65a-66aa); the interested Karaite to the Korner. The MO movement has prompted much more in-depth learning of Hebrew Bible, and this has re-opened a very interesting debate about literal (p'shat) vs. exegetical (d'rash) understanding of the Torah. Historically, a chasm has developed between OJ and the Karaites and Samaritans. Perhaps this newfound appreciation of "p'shat" will lead back to a reunification of sorts.
25 comments:
>This could be the start of something big, the mending of a rift that has festered for far too long.
LOL. That's the funniest thing I"ve heard all week. First we have to heal the rifts that are occuring between two shtiebels right the street from each other!
I love the Larry Bird pic. Very funny!
Thanks for the link! People should call me that more often...
-David A.M. Wilensky
A problem for the Karaites is that if you want to be most literal you don't even have Shavuos connected up with the first Sunday after Pesach. As for the Hillel and Shammai quote, it is nice but it doesn't mean that if Beis Hillel or Beis Shammai found out about someone in the other’s camp they considered prohibited in marriage they would overlook it and marry. It means they trusted the other camp that if nothing was said or known all was well and that they would have known otherwise if it wasn’t well. That trust is what is praised not that they gave up on all principles but that they had a good assumption about each other’s camp.
Heh, there's a Karaite in my class. I once was there when he had a discussion about it with the local Chabad rabbi. The rabbi had no idea what Karaism was.
The good thing is that he didn't care. Just as long as he was Jewish.
CM,
"But nowadays, most Jews are Reform, don't even believe in Moses, and have never heard of Shavuot"
I know I keep pressing you on this every now and again, but I'm really not clear on your motives or goals for Judaism. Do you want Jews to know nothing about Shavuous?
At the same time that you press for Jewish unity you argue for Jewish dissolution.
I don't understand Candyman, from YOUR perspective, you WANT a community within to read the bible as literally as possible?
Also, in contrast, I don't think they always read the bible literally. They interpret it as well, they just don't follow the rabbinic way and IIRC there is no ONE way to interpret scripture in their community.
Most Jews today are not Reform. Most of those who said they were Reform in the survey also said they belonged to no synagogue. When the survey was made and people were called people were put on the spot to consider what they are. More accurate is what they considered before being asked if they considered it at all. Further the survey was in the United States only.
As for the Karaites and Samaritans CandyMan one thing you fail to understand is that they don't want to include us either. Certainly the Sanmaritans are a seperate ethnic group albeit with mixed ancestry.
OP, about that Karaite in your class. Does he a tradition going back 1,000 years? Or did he, or recent ancestors, embrace Karaism?
Baal,
"OP, about that Karaite in your class. Does he a tradition going back 1,000 years? Or did he, or recent ancestors, embrace Karaism?"
He's from that community in California which emigrated from Egypt in the 50s. So I'm guessing his ties go way back.
OP, So the Egyptian Karaite community goes back for 1,000 years?
If that's true, I find it very interesting. What I'm driving at, is it must be the binding ritual, not Talmud Torah, which keeps it going.
That's an interesting disproof of what the Rabbi's say today.
Baal,
"So the Egyptian Karaite community goes back for 1,000 years?"
I believe so.
"What I'm driving at, is it must be the binding ritual, not Talmud Torah, which keeps it going."
Well, yeah. But they still learned Tanach.
Though it's unclear to me how observant or religious most Karaites are today.
OP, learning (reading?) Tanach is not quite Talmud Torah. But I hear you.
BHB,
LOL. [Mending the rift with the Karaites is] the funniest thing I"ve heard all week. First we have to heal the rifts that are occuring between two shtiebels right the street from each other!
I agree when it comes to OJ... but I'm not only addressing the Orthodox here. I think Karaites have been excluded by the other branches of Judaism, which are less insistent on absolute truth.
RG,
A problem for the Karaites is that if you want to be most literal you don't even have Shavuos connected up with the first Sunday after Pesach.
I agree with you here, absolutely. I'd go so far as to say that the Karaites get it wrong, and that they are not observing the literal letter of the law. But they're closer than the Rabbanites, since at least they start on Sunday.
HH, on this point:
I don't think they always read the bible literally. They interpret it as well, they just don't follow the rabbinic way
Yeah, but they're much more literal in general than the Rabbanites.
Back to RG,
As for the Hillel and Shammai quote, it is nice but ...it means they trusted the other camp that if nothing was said or known all was well and that they would have known otherwise if it wasn’t well. That trust is what is praised not that they gave up on all principles but that they had a good assumption about each other’s camp.
Trust is important... it's the key. Where exactly to draw the line is not clear from the Mishna. But part of it is willing to take a risk on behalf of the greater peace.
Similar doctrines abound in Rabbinic literature. "Great is the treatment of others, for on its behalf we overturn a negative precept from the Torah."
@HH,
I don't understand Candyman, from YOUR perspective, you WANT a community within to read the bible as literally as possible?
Karaites are one (interesting) voice in a chorus. There are many different ways to be Jewish. We should celebrate this variety, not use it as a wedge.
@RG,
Most Jews today are not Reform. Most of those who said they were Reform in the survey also said they belonged to no synagogue.
This is consistent: one can be a Reform Jew without belonging to a synagogue. Still, Reform is a powerful force in the Jewish world, and it holds a plurality, if not a majority, when it comes to the numbers.
I'm not sure which survey you are referring to, but I'm wondering whether non-denominational was an option.
I know I keep pressing you on this every now and again, but I'm really not clear on your motives or goals for Judaism. Do you want Jews to know nothing about Shavuous?
I have a definite vision for what Judaism can and should become. I think unity and peace should be our goals for the 21st century.
As for Shavuot, well it's a part of Judaism historically and can be a spiritually meaningful holiday for some. I'd love to see it updated a bit more, or put on the back burner in favor of more pressing issues. Imagine if all Jews spent one day devoting themselves to Arab/Israeli peace just once a year!
But as I said before, there are many ways to be Jewish and I don't want to see any of them disappear. My point is always that we should see the forest for the trees: use our common traditions as a way of building peace and unity, not as a wedge.
At the same time that you press for Jewish unity you argue for Jewish dissolution.
I see no advantage in "dissolving" Shavuot. There are certain elements within Judaism which are just plain immoral, and those should be dumped. But the vast majority of it, I think we should take and rework and make as meaningful and relevant and as possible.
“I agree with you here, absolutely. I'd go so far as to say that the Karaites get it wrong, and that they are not observing the literal letter of the law. But they're closer than the Rabbanites, since at least they start on Sunday.”
The Karaites here borrowed from the references to the Sadducees it seems. The Sadducees apparently lacked an independent tradition as far as where to set the first Sunday of the Omer. This was an excellent point on behalf of the Pharisee argument that there had to have been some oral tradition.
“I'm not sure which survey you are referring to, but I'm wondering whether non-denominational was an option.”
It was but when put on the spot by being asked a question you may have never of thought of you may feel like defining yourself in some positive sense.
“Imagine if all Jews spent one day devoting themselves to Arab/Israeli peace just once a year!”
Enough do more than once a year. I have a better proposal imagine if all Arabs spent one minute devoting themselves to Arab/Israeli peace just once a year! That would be even more helpful right now.
As long as the world feels that the Arabs can do as much as they feel up to and the pressure has to be exerted fully on Jews there will be a great obstacle to having a peace process. The message as it stands now becomes that Arabs are too inferior to be held to their word in any agreement interim or final.
Tell that to Obama if he has your ear at all.
CM,
"But as I said before, there are many ways to be Jewish and I don't want to see any of them disappear."
Of course you do. Heck, *I* do.
"My point is always that we should see the forest for the trees: use our common traditions as a way of building peace and unity, not as a wedge."
I think your positions are among the most divisive I know. You specifically target the 'wedge issue' of tradition - pitting those who adhere against all others. Ironic then how you think you can use tradition to build unity.
"I'd love to see it updated a bit more, or put on the back burner in favor of more pressing issues. Imagine if all Jews spent one day devoting themselves to Arab/Israeli peace just once a year!"
And this is a good example of what I'm talking about. You want to undo tradition and replace it with transient contemporary issues.
I think your positions are among the most divisive I know.
Ah, you know what I love *most* about this blog?
The adoring fans!
OP, I understand you are confused about how I see the world, but I try to be as clear as possible. You've got me pegged wrong, man. Some of it's undoubtedly my fault, for not being clear enough. But some of it is also you projecting and simply not listening. All I can suggest is that you keep reading. Maybe with time you'll come to appreciate and understand my perspective.
CM,
I really don't think I'm misunderstanding you at all. Here, I'll pose a question for you: what place do traditional-minded Jews have in your conception of a future Judaism? You know, those who want to keep Shavuous the way it's been kept since the Mishna was put to paper.
As far as I can tell the answer is none.
@RG,
The Sadducees apparently lacked an independent tradition as far as where to set the first Sunday of the Omer. This was an excellent point on behalf of the Pharisee argument that there had to have been some oral tradition.
The Sadducees ("Boethusians" in this Talmudic passage) held that the Omer is counted from the first Sunday after Passover. Their Shavuot therefore never fell more than a week after the Rabbanite one.
I don't think there's any need to invoke an Oral tradition here of any kind. The Bible is very clear about when the Omer is brought -- it's brought upon the first harvest (Lev. 23:10)! That was probably a variable event. You don't always need a calendar date for an event... remember that they didn't even have calendars back then. I think that's the plainest, simplest reading of the passage, one that was overlooked by both the Rabbanites and the more literal Sadducees.
@OP,
: what place do traditional-minded Jews have in your conception of a future Judaism?
They are the Priests.
CM,
"They are the Priests."
Care to elaborate? Are you sure you didn't mean 'museum exhibits'?
Judaism has always had a special place for those who want to live a lifestyle of ritual purity.
Such a lifestyle does not mean they have to live in the past. But it gives them an opportunity to engage the past in a much deeper way than your average person. It is a leadership position.
Please see my previous post for more on this.
The bit about a conversion in 1465 isn't really so. Some Marranos joined or rejoined the Cairo Karaite community.
Traditional Karaism doesn't have a conversion ceremony. The conversion of Ruth doesn't really provide a guide, because she married an Israelite and moved to Israel.
It is not at all clear that she would have been an Israelite had she not done so.
The Egyptian Karaites have an inspiring history. I hope they can continue it. But this conversion ceremony strikes me as a modern innovation. It is not traditional at all.
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