GUEST POST by Avi
[Note: This was submitted a couple of weeks ago and has been edited by me. - LNM]
Last Thursday night we had two weddings in Crown Heights. (Actually one of them we crashed because my daughter was there with her husband). The first wedding was at 770, naturally.
At the meal, which was across from 770, I sat next to some Lubies. I didn’t take their name or give them my name (but it was emblazoned on my kippah in English and in Hebrew). Being my natural big-mouth self I didn't try very hard to hide the fact that I am an atheist. I was sitting among three Lubies. When these three Lubies understood I don't believe in God they mumbled back to me:
"What do you mean that you don’t believe in God? Every Jew, every Jew must believe in HaShem!"
"I don’t. What should I do about it?"
"Read the 'Tanya' and other books on Chasidus. That will do it. There you will see the truth."
"Why must I as a Jew believe in God if my mind tells me otherwise?"
"The 'Yetzer Horah' (evil inclination) is trying to trick you. He's telling you not to believe what your mind really tells you. Your mind is misleading you."
"But, my mind was given to me by HaShem. Why would He give me a mind that would mislead me? That would be defeating his purpose."
In the end their answer was just learn Tanya, and make sure to put on Tefillin, and daven, and that I would see it will come back to me, and I will become frum again. But of course in the end they really had nothing to say. Not a word of proof to me on how the Yetzer Horah is misleading me, or that my mind is in any way misleading me, or anything to that effect. I wanted them to prove something to me. But of course they could only mumble, "read the Tanya and other books on Chasidus and you will find the correct path."
"Don’t you want to have Jewish Grandchildren?" they asked.
"I already have Jewish grandchildren, my kids all married Jewish."
"What must your kids think of you? Don’t you want their respect?"
"My kids love me and respect me for who I am, and they don’t know what I think." And that ended the discussion.
I guess the choson and kallah (groom and bride) really didn’t like each other that much. They were both lifted up on tables and they were throwing things at each other across the mechitza (partition). Ouch! If one of those hits you on the head it could hurt.
Then we went to visit my daughter and her husband at the other wedding. There my wife was talking to my daughter. My son-in-law was talking to his friends. And I was happily left alone to watch the women dance. I really wanted very much to walk over to a chasidish lady who was wearing stockings with seams. She was quite attractive. I just wanted to ask her if she ever feels like breaking away from the mold by wearing seamless stockings. My daughter said that she would probably slap me. So, instead I spent the rest of the evening standing around, getting slightly inebriated, watching the women dance and letting my imagination go with them.
Avi
18 comments:
Interesting post. I'm a bit confused. You start off by talking about disbelief/belief in G-d then move on to hitting on to watching women dance. I feel like there should have been something that brought the two stories together. Was there and I just missed it?
They were out at a wedding--and you expect them to put any more effort into humoring you? A bit self-center, no? They did the right thing by getting on with their evening, which I'm sure didn't include wasting time trying to entertain an argumentative rabble rouser.
Avi if you're not afraid to tell people at the wedding you are an atheist you can tell your daughter even. As for my email to you since it doesn't seem to work from Yahoo I'll send it to you from Comcast.
You're a pruste baal taaveh!
Of course something brought the stories together. The atheism and girl watching are both caused by testosterone.
anon - Speaking of "argumentative"...
jp - ah... thanks for clearing that up :-P
Sounds like my kind of night.
Doesn't it bother you that many frum people think that atheism is a disease to which Talmud Torah (or Chasidus) is the antidote?
It bothers me that they can't see that someone could legitimately not believe in God or realize that the TMS or some such idea is false. The only reason anyone would'nt be a believer, in their minds, is from lack of study and an overpowering of ta'avos. This really drives me MAD!
This is AVI..... Lets see if I can answer everyone in one fell swoop.
Jessica.. If I was looking at the men dancing you would think that I was queer. Ladies are prettier then men.
Anonymous I am not a rabble rouser I speak very respectfully to everyone.
Rabban Gamliel my daughter and son in law have their suspicions, but that I should come out and openly admit it. Are you crazy.
Thurston I am not a prust anything. I like to think of myself as an agnostic who is married to a very very frum Jewish shiksa.
Jewish Non Philosopher. Thank you for the compliment. At my age I really dont think much of testosterone, is that why I still make love to my wife? I thought that I really loved her.
Fedup yes I agree with you. If you really give any thought to anything except the Jewish party line to which my wife is a firm subscriber of, they think that you are brain damaged. My wife says I probably had a stroke. Well , all I can say is different strokes for different folks......AVI
haha, AVI you ought to have your own blog.
Avi said:
"Gamliel my daughter and son in law have their suspicions, but that I should come out and openly admit it. Are you crazy."
You admit it at a wedding to strangers. If your daughter and soninlaw ask you certainly you should be honest short of some counter reason. Honesty isn't the ideal here with your own daughter and soninlaw especially since they suspect it anyhow?
FedUp said:
"It bothers me that they can't see that someone could legitimately not believe in God or realize that the TMS or some such idea is false. The only reason anyone wouldn't be a believer, in their minds, is from lack of study and an overpowering of ta'avos. This really drives me MAD!"
That's the same treatment the believers are getting on some of these skeptic blogs. The idea being that if you believe you must not be thinking but instead it must be that you haven't read enough or have some desire to believe but not that you simply have arrived at a different idea. In any event it was a wedding and telling Avi if he read the Tanya it would help would be the equivalent of saying if you read Dawkins it would help you be an atheist but the details would have to wait after the wedding.
Avi- Lubavitch women generally don't wear lined stockings.
When exactly was this wedding BTW, cause last Thursday was Sefira?
Sorry, just noticed LNM's note at the beginning...
"I just wanted to ask her if she ever feels like breaking away from the mold by wearing seamless stockings."
Oh Avi your daughter is right. Any woman would probably slap you for coming out of the blue to tell them about their wardrobe. Usually it is women complimenting their fellow women on their selection so then it doesn't look fresh.
Avi - no, my focus was not on that you were looking at women dancing. I just thought that there would be a connection between not believing in G-d and watching the women dancing. Something like, "Any religion that thinks it's wrong to look at women dancing is not the religion for me."
"What must your kids think of you? Don’t you want their respect?"
"My kids love me and respect me for who I am, and they don’t know what I think." And that ended the discussion.
I find it interesting that they think that one is only deserving of respect if you follow their interpretation of religion and/or morality.
I don't think that was their point but at the same time if you have strong beliefs on values and someone doesn't live up to it you will not give blanket approval or praise to them for going against what you feel is right.
"I find it interesting that they think that one is only deserving of respect if you follow their interpretation of religion and/or morality."
In any event it's not literally a matter of interpretation. It's a matter of different values and no religion versus religion.
awsome story ! but your not alone.
Crown Heights and Lubavitch are filled with non believers who walk the walk and wear the kippa because of family, yichus, shame etc. Not to many have the balls to break out of the mold. At least you admit it though.
Kol-hakavod !
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