You probably remember the recent ban Orthodox Jewish Rabbis placed on the musical stylings of Hasidic entertainer Lipa Schmeltzer. (link) The latest religious ban comes from Ayatollah Alam al-Hoda over in Iran.Ayatollah Alam al-Hoda, Friday Prayer leader of Mashhad: "The difference between [the holy Shi'te city of] Mashhad and other provinces should be demonstrated by banning public concerts in the city."According to Wikipedia: "Mashhad is the second largest city in Iran and one of the holiest cities in the Shia world." In other words, Mashhad is the Shia equivalent of Hasidic Brooklyn. :)
- National Review Online 4/5/08
I'm interested in the fact that different religions often express themselves in eerily similar ways.
Here is a link to "Testimonies of Young People and Christian Rock". (link) These guys are Baptist. The comments from these young Christians talking about "Christian Rock" are very similar to the complaints made about Lipa and his adaptation of "modern" music.
"'Christian rock' has hindered my life because the only difference between 'Christian rock' and secular rock is the words. The beat, rhythm, and the melody are not different; they are the same."When concert bans are invoked by both Hasidic-Jewish-fundamentalists and Shia-Islamic-fundamentalists it has to make you stop and think.
"I can tell you that when I hear 'Christian rock' music, it makes no difference what the lyrics are. It is the music that causes the poor spirit and rebellious attitude."
14 comments:
Not necassarily.
Should I be concerned that both orthodoxy and fundamental islam both prohibit pornography?
I'm not saying I agree with their concert ban, only saying that two groups with some similar values are clearly going to see bad things within secular culture which ends up leading to bans.
> Should I be concerned that both orthodoxy and fundamental islam both prohibit pornography?
...saying that two groups with some similar values are clearly going to see bad things within secular culture which ends up leading to bans.
I don't know if porn is the best example. Porn has both religious and secular MORAL opponents. On the other hand, concerts and music enjoy near-universal acceptance. What is interesting is that the concert bans and the criticism of music are not based on any specific tenet of faith. Rabbis, Ayatollahs and Baptists aren't MORALLY opposed to music. They are sometimes opposed to certain types of music, or public music, sometimes. These are bans on concerts, or bans on music that sounds similar to the secular music of the day. That's very vague. It's interesting that these different groups are so similar when they are reactionary.
Well, it's the secular component, or should I say, the "rock n roll" component usually that would call for a ban. Now it does not need to be explicit rock n roll, but anything that sounds funky and modern. I don't think it can be denied that these can affect people. Hell, even Israel banned the Beatles.
btw- how did you add that feature on your blogroll that shows the latest posts?
> I don't think it can be denied that these can affect people. Hell, even Israel banned the Beatles.
Music certainly effects people (that's why we listen to it). But what specific effect does rock and roll MUSIC (sans lyrics) have on people? I understand why religious leaders ban lyrics (even though I disagree) but they have an irrational problem with the melody. 43 years later does the Beatles ban make any sense?
Blogroll Feature:
Goto Blogger in draft -> layout -> Add a gadget -> add "Blog List"
Enjoy!
For you and I, melody means nothing. But I am assuming they draw a line between such "modern" and "secular" melodies, for an eventual yearning for more and more.
Look, I agree with you. They just end up digging their own graves. They build a society that at its foundation is restriction of everything and they must keep it up.
I know the feature of adding a list, but you were able to add recent posts as well. I don't seem to have that feature
> I don't seem to have that feature
You have to click the link I put in the comment. It links to a test version of Blogger. The feature I directed you to select is different from the old lists.
Here is the link again.
Blogger in draft: http://draft.blogger.com/
> But I am assuming they draw a line between such "modern" and "secular" melodies, for an eventual yearning for more and more.
I've have actually heard nonsense about Shlock Rock being a gateway drug to "even worse music" (pun intended). But more immediately they also think the goyish (secular) music (even without lyrics) has the ability to negatively effect the soul on a spiritual level.
"It's interesting that these different groups are so similar when they are reactionary."
That's overstating it. In any event a concert if secular at all in origin could be considered a threat if religion is interpreted as needing a higher degree of isolation. It's no big wonder you would having some religions' members having members ban them.
So, Lipa was banned because he sounds to "modern" even though his lyrics are religious? Why wasn't Matisyahu banned?
Obviously the point of Footloose continues to be missed.
Anyhow, any organization that is founding its ongoing building on saying no is inevitably left with nitpicking and schisms and backbiting.
Soon, the knives come out, and this bunch or that guy is not whatever enough and the organization whittles itself down and eats its own people.
Really bad. Proven by Communist Russia and China and Nazi Germany. Eventually negativism feeds on the people who practice it and destroys them. I really don't want to be so negative. I'd rather tell my kids, sure, that perfect rather than no, no, can't listen to that.
Matisyahu did not put out "frum" concerts.
It's like the Slifkin ban. Now that he does not get rabbinic signatures, they cannot touch him
beehive: Mattisyahu was banned. I remember freaking out about it to one of my super frummy firends, and she was like "well yea, that kind of music makes your body move in an innappropriate way" or s/t like that.
This just proves once again that there's nothing in fundamentalist Islam that Orthodox Judaism did not do first.
Kidding!
Having lived (so far) a basically orthoprax lifestyle these issues that have come to light only from the Jewish Press, Jewish Week & "Vos Es Neis" have been totally irrelvant to me and my wife. But that's where the irrlevance and indifference ends. You see my cute little children have morphed into young adult FRUMACS!. Much to my chagrin I am unable to be myself in front of my offspring and theirs. My friends this is the looming hazzard of any fundamentalism. But it's too late baby the damage has been done. The teachers/rabbis/rebbittzens have indoctorinated the vulnerable into the same mindset that as overtaken the muslim world, although our kids don't blow themselves up. This is my complaint. Why didn't I just keep them Yeshiva of Flatbush or sent them to Ramaz or Haftr.Don't get me wrong I am madly in love with all of them but they won't eat in my home on peseach and even when it's not peseach they read ingredients on stuff we have in the cupboard. To paraphrase that Gadol Hador Willie Nelson.. Mothers don't let your chidlren grow up to be frummies
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