As far as I can tell god doesn't exist. As far as I can tell aliens don't exist either but I don't rule out the possibility. There is a contradiction here but only because I haven't defined my terms.
Let me clarify exactly what I mean. I don't believe that extra-terrestrials are visiting Earth and, more importantly, I don't think aliens are abducting humans and probing their nether regions. But, I do think it is certainly possible that intelligent life exists on another planet in another galaxy.
Basically, I don't believe that aliens exist as described by Area 51 conspiracy theorists. But, if reasonable evidence of alien life were presented to me I would probably accept it.
With God/s I can't know for certain if He/She/They exist. However, I am certain that "the God who brought you out of Egypt" as described by the Torah and the Sages does not exist. The evidence (archaeological and otherwise) indicates that the Torah was not written by Moshe and that the Hebrews (as described by the Torah and most of Navi) didn't exist.
Basically, I don't believe in god as described by Orthodox Judaism. But, if reasonable evidence of a god or gods was presented to me I would probably accept it.
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The truth is I am more open to the idea of alien life. Why? Because humans exist. Call us a "proof of concept" test. People, animals, and bacteria exist on this planet so life is evidently possible. If you factor in the number of galaxies in the universe (billions!) there seems to be plenty of opportunity for life to emerge elsewhere. It seems reasonable to think that life may exist on other planets.
On the other hand, God has no such parallel.
Based on what we know it would seem alien life is significantly more likely than God. What do you think?
26 comments:
You're making a category error. God isn't a being in existence like an alien species, but is the very force of being itself. Chew on that.
Think essence not entity.
> God... is the very force of being itself.
Sounds like your concept of god differs from the concept most people hold by. Care to expand on the idea?
In haiku:
Baruch Hamakom
Spinoza; Albert Einstein
Panentheism
"Lubab No More said...
> God... is the very force of being itself.
Sounds like your concept of god differs from the concept most people hold by. Care to expand on the idea?"
You're making a category error altogether. G-d isn't a being in the same sense as a creature. He isn't properly speaking a being. Think of it this way, one interpretation of Quantum Mechanics is that intelligence is an intrinsic property of reality. That intelligence if it exists is a necessary property of reality, not exactly a being. Assigning a probability to it as if it would be an accidental feature is as nonsensical as doing that with gravity.
> described by the Torah and most of Navi) didn't exist.
Care you explain what you mean by the Navi part? Are you talking about Joshua and Judges?
I think early man recognized the force of the cosmos or whatever you want to call what holds our reality together as "G-d" and it went from there with the very basic concept. I see G-d as the laws of the universe. Does that deserve worship and praise? I am not sure about that but I do until I am.
HH,
> Care you explain what you mean by the Navi part?
Basically, some of the leaders, empires, structures, and events written about in Navi have been supported by the archaeological record. Whereas, the Torah (5 books of Moses) doesn't have the same kind of evidence.
The Hittite empire was first known of to the West from the Bible. Only later was it dug up. Things like that itself should boost the Bible. The Bible is a piece of evidence itself for our history and certainly most of our history can only be expected to be known from our literature and records.
Where does archeology contradict the Torah? Because surviving Egyptian documents don’t mention the Exodus? They also don’t mention the eruption of Thera.
Egyptian records were not in the habit of recording unreversed failures of Egypt.
I'm not sure how much Egyptian records recorded at all 3,300 years ago.
The Torah is actually mankind's earliest history book.
Lubab I am inclined to agree with you. God if he does exists ( maybe yes maybe no ) is not what we Jews make of him. Everyone wants to think that God is their buddy. Every religion thinks that God is theirs only. He created all of us, so if he does exists he belongs to all of us. The only difference is how we formed our religion to reflect our service of him......Avi
>Everyone wants to think that God is their buddy.
Where does Judaism say its OUR buddy?
Where does Judaism say its OUR buddy?
The concept of a chosen people does not imply that? Asking him to forgive us and bless us with a good year does not imply some sort of closeness between us and God?.... Avi
"I don't believe that extra-terrestrials are visiting Earth"
What makes you so sure. Eventually we will visit other planets.
>The concept of a chosen people does not imply that? Asking him to forgive us and bless us with a good year does not imply some sort of closeness between us and God?
So are you implying the correct path is Deism?
I mean, even by your example, how is he only OUR God?
If you don't want to believe in God then I am under the assumpting you believe the world was created by the 'premordial oz'. In which cause creation was an accident. The problem, or at least my personal problem with creation being an accident is then there are no absolutes in the world, no subjective morality. If you're honestly interesting in all these 'fluffy' but make you feel really intellectual go read some philoshpy of religion. I'll think you'll find that while the thesist never wins, nor does the athesist. Both arguments are full of many holes.
God isn't a concept that at least in its full meaning is possible for the limited human intellect to comperhend.
I've thought quite a bit about alien life, as have others. A famous calculation is the Drake equation:
http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious/Topics/SETI/drake_equation.html
This usually gives an estimate of >1000 intelligent civilizations per galaxy (e.g. the Milky Way).
My question is, though, why have we not received any radio transmissions from these aliens? Radio should travel at essentially the speed of light, right? The entire galaxy is only about 10,000 light years across. So, with >1000 intelligent civilizations, the average civilization is only 10 light years away... meaning that it should take the average radio message from the aliens only 10 years to reach us.
The Torah is actually mankind's earliest history book.
idunno, man. The Chinese literary tradition goes back about 5,000 years. I think there was some history in there.
Just Google "oldest Chinese book" for more info.
TCM,
> My question is, though, why have we not received any radio transmissions from these aliens?
Assuming the math is correct, perhaps the easiest explanation is that while > 1000 is the average amount of intelligent civilizations per galaxy, our galaxy just happens to be below average.
But, I think searching for radio signals may be a waste of time anyway. Humanity only started broadcasting signals powerful enough to picked up by aliens in the last hundred years. Further, we are moving away from high powered broadcasts (The Simpsons on FOX) in favor of mostly land-based internet communication (iTunes). We're now using the radio frequencies for local broadcasts to hand-held devices. A hundred years from now it seems doubtful we will be broadcasting nationwide programming at all so there may not be any consistent radio signals emitting from Earth. Maybe civilizations only make high powered radio broadcasts for a few hundred years and then stop. If so, looking for radio signals may be a bigger long shot then previously thought.
Of course, what the hell do I know about some theoretical alien civilization.
So are you implying the correct path is Deism?
If I believe in God at all, then deism is the only way I can believe. I dont believe that God spoke to anyone at all. We are smart maybe we can figure it out. Perhaps God is only a force that started the universe with no intelligence at all, who knows.....Avi
The entire galaxy is only about 10,000 light years across.
No my friend you are sadly mistaken. The galaxy is 100,000 light years across. Look it up. And radio and tv waves will soon be a thing of the past. Fios is taking over and if there are older civilizations then us they may have moved on or found other ways to communicate. Although there must be older civilizations then the earth ( we are only 4.5 billion years old and we have only become literate enough to send out radio waves for about 100 years, thats really only a millionth of a second in terms of how old other civilizations may be. Perhaps if we keep looking we will find something. If we are looking in the right place and at the right time.......Avi
Actually, I think there are two things going on here...
It is true that we are looking for radio signals out there and it is possible that it is the wrong thing to look for. However, there is also the reverse, meaning that for the past 100 years or so, Earth has been emitting radio signals into space. If anyone were looking at our galaxy with a radio telescope, Earth would light up like a giant beacon because the only things that emit radio frequencys at this intensity are black holes, pulsars, etc... A planet doing this would be unique, which means that if anyone is looking for unusual signs out there, we would be on their radar, so to speak.
. A planet doing this would be unique, which means that if anyone is looking for unusual signs out there, we would be on their radar, so to speak.
And perhaps they dont want us to know about them. After all if we are broadcasting our radio waves they must also know that we have gone nuclear. Perhaps they wanna keep out of sight. Although we would never ever be able to go there and declare war on them , possibly they are living peacefully and calmly and would prefer to lie low and not attract attention to themselves. .....Avi
I think it's particularly curious how the universe appears basically virgin. If intelligent civilizations could exist for millions of years where are the big constructions, the mined out solar systems, the leftover debris? The galaxy appears untouched.
where are the big constructions, the mined out solar systems, the leftover debris?
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