Shield it with Your lovingkindness, envelop it in Your peace, and bestow Your light and truth upon its leaders, ministers, and advisors, and grace them with Your good counsel. (jewishvirtuallibrary.org)This is a clear request to god. The words Jewish people pray imply the purpose is something other than self-improvement.
Modern Orthodox Judaism wants to present prayer as a form of self-betterment but it doesn't fit. Jewish sources present prayer as a way to request something from god (life, liberty, etc.) In Shmuel (Samuel) Chana prays to god with a specific deal in mind (give me a child and I will give that child to you).
I understand that Judaism doesn't claim that you will get whatever you pray for. ("Sometimes the answer is no.") But Judaism does imply that prayer is a way to ask for things from god. Those who claim prayer is only a path to self-improvement are at odds with Jewish tradition.
14 comments:
Not so. What does G-d need us to ask Him something for? Before we ask He won't do but after we ask He might? For what? If on the other hand our prayers affect us then it can cause a difference in the world and so there are different variables for G-d to deal with. Think of Yom Kippur. If we pray to be forgiven but are the same are we forgiven? If my conception is against Jewish tradition then the Rambam for instance is against Jewish tradition.
I agree with RG. LNM, be careful with the black and white thinking about Jewish tradition. Even traditional Judaism evolves with its views. You may be correct that we don't now view prayer the same as they did in the Talmud. But Judaism has had to face the reality of its existence in the past 2000 years, and clearly cause and effect does not work the way the ancients saw it.
Judaism is and always has been what Jews made of it in every generation.
What does "traditional" Judaism say about women, concubines, polygamy? What about slaves or animal sacrifice (not withstanding what some people say now...).
Judaism evolves.
(not withstanding what some people say now...).
Judaism evolves.
Of course Jufaism evolves. My rebbeyim in yeshiva used to say that all other religions are man made and therefore change, but Judaism was given by God and is therefore the same now as it always was. Even in my younger years I saw through this sham and understood that Judaism over the years has changed in many ways. Take the story with Moshe Rabbenu who saw Rabbi Akiva adding crowns to the torah. There we can see that the Judaism of Moshe and the later generations has changed. And even now there are many who are adding Minhogim and others who are adding Chumros that were never known before.....Avi
DrJ,
We agree that Judaism has evolved. My post doesn't dispute that. My argument is that Jewish prayer is not only for self-improvement. The text of many our prayers, and the history of prayer in Judaism, makes it clear that often we are making requests of god.
I'm not arguing that god needs our prayer, I'm pointing out that the intent of many Jewish prayers is to request god to take a specific action.
"My argument is that Jewish prayer is not only for self-improvement."
So we can do what we want? No our prayers assume we are trying to make ourselves worthy of any requests.
I agree with LBN. Looking at the instances of tefillah in tanach, one but gets the sense that we daven to hashem so he will change expected outcomes: heal sick people (miriam), bless a barren mother with children (the imahose, etc.), make bnei yisrael victorious over their foes (amalek), etc. It seems that the assumption is, is that tefillah can make a difference. Similar to how the goyim beseech each their own god (and hence the mitzvah not to worship or put faith in other deities).
From a theological point of view, I find this hard to swallow. Pretend Reb Shmuel is deathly ill. If hashem wants to heal him, He will. But why would that depend on me davening? Is that fair to Reb Shmuel? What about situations when people daven for complete strangers half way around the world? Will hashem heal them if I daven, and let them die if I don't? And why would hashem heal someone just because of a michebeirach that was muttered quickly by some gabbai who has no idea what he's saying (aside from please heal the sick)?
If the ones praying would have at the same time been into sinning do you think that would not have been taken into account? Your objections are valid and seem to be quite or exactly parallel to what I said but are only on target if your conception of prayer is true. The act of praying itself should have an affect on us but how much depends on us.
LNM,
"My argument is that Jewish prayer is not only for self-improvement. The text of many our prayers, and the history of prayer in Judaism, makes it clear that often we are making requests of god."
Well, yes and no. On the one hand, it is a kind of 'can't hurt to try' type of effort, but it also can act as a way for a community to express deeply held values and concerns. Praying for peace or the welfare of Israel brings the general community to attention of "things we should be concerned about."
In this case, it isn't personal progress, but a communal idealism being worked on.
Orthoprax,
> In this case, it isn't personal progress, but a communal idealism being worked on.
I suppose your suggestion is an approach someone might follow. But the fact remains the text is beseeching god, not encouraging communal ideals.
LNM,
"I suppose your suggestion is an approach someone might follow. But the fact remains the text is beseeching god, not encouraging communal ideals."
Of course, that's how prayer operates. It's directed to God, but it's more of a projection of values by the one praying.
Obviously this is mostly a modern concept as the traditional and popular ideas about prayer is that it can efficaciously grant requests, but it is still a generally workable way of thinking about prayer for a modern approach to religion. Though you might also want to see the Rambam's ideas about prayer.
Lubab the ancient Israelites did not simply pray thinking that no matter what they did it would not matter as to whether the prayer would be received. It was felt they have to have worthy behavior and have the prayers reflect their worthiness. This we see in the prayers.
Prayer has many purposes...it's important not to oversimplify it. Yes, it is for asking for things. Yes, it is for self-betterment. I believe that prayer is for connecting us to God in the absence of a more direct connection (and thus accomplishing both asking for things and bettering ourselves).
Who says prayer won't help you get things? That's not Biblical, as you point out.
Praying to God has as much efficacy - whether real or placebo - as praying to the spaghetti monster, provided that you believe that the latter is your deity.
On another subject, when will the medical establishment decide to take a serious look at the power of the placebo?
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